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32 thoughts on “Basketball Hall of Fame Standards

    1. Here’s the bottom five by this method:

      Frank Ramsey — 26
      Ralph Sampson — 26
      K.C. Jones — 21
      Bill Bradley — 20
      Arvydas Sabonis — 8

      Some extenuating circumstances here: Sampson and Bradley were both fantastic college players, while Sabonis was an international star before coming to the NBA.

      1. Sorry to see Webber so high on the eligible list, as I think character issues should keep him off for a few more ballots (you obviously can’t unring a bell). That bottom list is interesting; I agree with the exceptions you listed as Ramsey shouldn’t be in the HOF, and probably neither should K.C. Jones.
        Personally, I would have run a correlation that included a grading system for number of all NBA teams made.

  1. KC Jones and Jack Ramsey do not belong but they aren’t the lowest of the low in real terms. Obviously Ralph Sampson shouldn’t be in, as his accomplishments are extremely limited. If one says he deserves to get in, then so do Mark Aguirre, Jack Sikma, Marques Johnson, Sidney Moncrief, and Wayman Tisdale, who were great in College and far, far better than Ralph ever was in the pros, no excuses. Anyone who defends Ralph has to agree that you’d then have to consider other great College players who also had one or two good years in the NBA , like Scott May and Kent Benson, Otis Birdsong, Keith Lee, Pervis Ellison, and more. Sampson sets the bar for how low.

    A fair system would have to include all a player did. So Aguirre’s HS all-american, HS Mr. Basketball awards, two time unanimous College all-american, two-time college player of the year, final four team, and more would push him up to near Iverson or higher with his NBA accolades, even being off the radar for awards in Dallas.

  2. Here’s a thought: what about changing the baseline based on positions? Russell gets no points for his 4.3 assists per game, yet that is very good for a center and his good passing was surely something the voters took into account. Similarly, Jason Kidd will get extra credit for his rebounds because very few PGs can do that like he did.

  3. This is so cool! I’ve been playing around with it. Interestingly, Duncan is now at an 89, Lebron is at 79 (with a good chance of maxing out the games played for an extra 4 points and maybe another championship down the road), Kobe is at 75 (his lack of assists and rebounds hurt him), and Garnett is at 70.

  4. K. C. Jones won wherever he went. Twice as a college player, at the Olympics, 8 times with the Celtics; as an assistant coach for that record breaking Laker team, brought the Bullets to the finals as coach, won two championships as a coach of the Celtics. Obviously he played with Bill Russell in each of those situations as a player. Still whatever he touched turned to gold. He was a great defensive player, a very good play maker. And probably some kind of genius.. I remember reading once that he and Russell as college player would go to a court the day before a game and bounce the ball at various places to learn about dead spots on the court. How you measure any of that with these statistics is beyond me. But if you want to win a championship you sure would want him on your team. He also was a spectacular dresser.

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  6. One think I don’t like is the ‘we like him’ argument for the HoF. Just because the media likes Larry Nance and a lot of guys liked how he played the game doesn’t make him a HOFer, nor does it mean Webber, Aguirre, and others who the media or certain fans don’t like are out. Jo Jo White, KJ, Tim Hardaway are not HoF players. It isn’t just about personal stats as some guys simply play to maximize their numbers. Which guys have those stats but take less shots, minutes, whatever when the team needs them too? That’s the tip over for a HoF player. Lebron does it, Bird did it, Kobe not at all even though he’s a HoF lock.

    One thing I like to look at is winning %; does the team win with you and lose when you go, even though the other 11 guys are still mostly or all there? For several players on your lists the answer is no, the team does as well or better without said player (Adrian Dantley is one such player). Mark Aguirre is on the other end with Sikma, huge advantage in wins with them than without them.

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